Linda Bellos and Venice Allan. A case to answer?

The crowd gathered to support Linda & Venice outside Westminster Magistrates Court.

On 26th September 2018, Venice and Linda had to present themselves at Westminster Magistrates Court in answer to a private prosecution brought by a tranactivist who felt threatened by one of 67 year old Linda’s comments at a ‘We Need to Talk’ meeting last year.

I’d arranged to meet Venice and a few other people at Starbucks on Baker Street at 8.45, which meant getting up at 7am. Not my favourite time in the morning.  It was an early start and I’m not great at early starts.

Venice & her mum enjoy a pre-court coffee

It was a bright, cool morning and the coffee steamed in the sunlight. Linda arrived, with her partner and friends, looking very dapper in a pin striped suit. Everybody seemed in very high spirits, and Ruby and I sat outside with Venice and her mum while we waited for her solicitor and paralegal to arrive. Two coffees later, Venice & Linda sped off in a taxi with them and the rest of us walked the short distance to the court.

When we arrived at Westminster Magistrates Court, over half an hour early, there were already a few clusters of women and a handful of banners of support waving. I went straight through after a bag search: Venice had warned me that there might not be many seats available in the public gallery and I was keen to watch the proceedings so I could blog about them for those unable to be there. Well, ok, it wasn’t an entirely altruistic motive, I was hugely curious to hear what Guiliana had to say for himself. It’s a very strange case indeed.

Linda and Venice wait for a cab to take them to court.

For those of you unfamiliar with the story,  on November 8th 2017, at a ‘We Need To Talk About The GRA’ [Gender Recognition Act] event in York, organised by Venice Allan, Linda Bellos was one of the speakers.  Speaking, she says, with reference to the assault of Maria Maclachlan at Speakers’ Corner a few months beforehand, 67 year old Bellos said:

 

“‘I play football and I box, and if any one of those bastards comes near me I will take off my glasses and… clock (?) them.”

Linda is no stranger to activism. She came out as a lesbian in the early 80s, led London Lambeth Borough Council from 1986-88 and is the instigator of Black History Month in the UK.  She received an OBE in 2006 for ‘services to diversity’, having worked in various roles including co-chair of the LGBT Advisory Group to the Metropolitan Police. This article,  ‘Yes, we were bloody angry’  from 2006 chronicles some of her achievements.

A month before ‘We Need to Talk‘, in October 2017, Bellos had been uninvited by the Beard Society, a self-described gender and feminist group at Cambridge University, after telling organisers she planned to question ‘some of the trans politics’ in her talk.

The Beard Society’s decision to uninvite Bellos (undaunted, she planned to go and speak at Oxford instead) led Claire Heuchan to observe:

“It is ludicrous to claim that someone who has committed her life to liberation politics is a risk to the well being of those who listen to her perspective – and deeply insulting.  Black, female, Jewish and lesbian feminist, Bellos is not exactly a preacher of hate.”

Nonetheless, despite her stirling record of service to both the party and the community, LGBT Labour claimed that Ms Bellos’s views and perceived threats of violence were ‘deeply offensive’ and accused her of ‘clearly inciting violence against trans members and the wider trans community’. LGBT Labour complained to the Labour Party General Secretary and  North Yorkshire police interviewed Ms Bellos under caution in October 2017, but understandably took no further action.

It seemed the incident had blown over until a month ago when Giuliana Kendal, a transgender rights campaigner who I understand saw a video of the comments online, decided to bring a private prosecution (PP).

The court papers accuse Bellos of breaking Section 5 of the Public Order Act which makes it an offence to use ‘threatening or abusive words or behaviour, or disorderly behaviour’  within the hearing or sight of a person ‘likely to be caused harassment, alarm or distress thereby’.

Kendal’s prosecution also summonses Venice Allan, who Facebook live-streamed the event, despite the fact that she was not interviewed by police at the time. Allan is accused of sending an offensive message ‘by means of a public electronic communication network a message or other that was grossly offensive”.

Yes, I think we read that right, in a nutshell it seems that Venice is being prosecuted because while she was live-streaming an event, somebody said something that somebody else didn’t like. Let’s get some perspective here: I know a woman who was punched in the head on a train platform by a random strange man and advised by the police not to prosecute.

Two terms of half-hearted study of 20th century ‘A’ level law several decades ago did not prepare me for understanding this. I just don’t get it. If a male transactivist DMs or @s me, I click on their Twitter profile and a video springs up of them taking it up the arse, or of a dog being beaten to death by a police officer in China (both IRL examples of my recent Twitter experience), that’s ok? But Linda’s feisty self-defence speech isn’t? Am I missing something here?

‘This is an attempt to silence women and it is outrageous… I’m a disabled pensioner, with no funds to defend myself since my partner died of cancer, being intimidated by men purporting to be women.”  Bellos told the press.

Nope, I’ve done a bit of research and I still don’t get it. Firstly, how startlingly unfair is a private prosecution (PP) system? How incredibly undemocratic, how entirely unjust the idea seems to me and surely to anyone who gives the matter more than cursory consideration. Secondly, surely it must cost somebody a fortune, whoever wins or loses?

In 2014 the Independent ran an article about the growing popularity of PPs, entitled ‘Two-tier Justice‘  wherein I discovered that The Director of Public Prosecutions (head of the CPS) can take over and stop a case if it is considered “vexatious”, “malicious” or “not in the public interest”.

Could I mount a PP against anyone who offends me, ever, as long as I have the money to follow through? It seems not.

“Prosecutors must be satisfied that there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of conviction against the defendant.” informs the Private Prosecution Service, adding tantalisingly, “Can you fund the private prosecution proceedings?” but their website doesn’t tell you how long that particular piece of string is.

Interestingly, I read on Wikipedia that in 2014, Westminster Magistrates was used as what one journalist described as a publicity stunt when  an ex-mormon summoned the head of the Church of the Latter Day Saints to appear on fraud charges. The leader, who resides in America, did not attend, but the guy that summoned him got over three quarters of a million visits to his website when the press broke the story.  A former crown prosecutor stated: “This is just using the law to make a show”. Obviously the courts are not keen on such behaviour.

According to EMM, a UK PP specialist, a fraud and financial crime service can “cost(s) in the region of £6000 and upwards… cases can become expensive.”

I’m both intrigued and confused, but it’s 3am and I’ve an article to finish.

 

Back to the tale in hand. I arrived at Westminster Magistrates and passed through the huge glass doors. The court was built in 2011 and the architect was clearly a fan of glass.  Security was understandably tight. My bag passed through an Xray machine, I passed through a metal archway and headed up several flights of stairs to find Court Nine.

There were already about a dozen women waiting outside the court room. Five or six of them were wearing “Woman= adult human female” T shirts. One was engaged in a discussion with a court clerk who was suggesting they all sat down until the court was open. She was not convinced.

“We’ll just wait right here, thank you.” she told the clerk, politely but firmly.

I lurked close to the door. It hadn’t crossed my mind spaces would be so limited.

“There’s only room for 12 people inside,” explained the clerk. “Six from each side.”

There was no sign of Giuliana, although two trans people, a man and a woman, were standing near the doors.

“Are you Venice Allan?” the clerk asked the man, who looked somewhat surprised and explained that he was not. No, nor was he Giuliana Kendal. A couple of women seemed understandably disgruntled that we wouldn’t all be able to fit inside.

“What about neutral people?” asked one. “Can we go in?”

“If there’s room,” said the clerk.

We waited.  It was ten past ten and the session should have started at ten. I felt restless.

 

I could see through the window that a larger crowd had gathered outside, and its colourful banners swayed as it moved.

There were representatives from Fair Play for Women, Man Friday, Get the LOut, A Woman’s Place, Lesbian Alliance, Object, Let A Woman Speak… and many supporters who had come independent of an organisation. Almost all were women.

A journalist asked me afterwards who had been present and I tried to list all the groups that had sent or expressed support. Hadn’t Liverpool Resisters sent a banner? I knew Leeds had brought their beautifully embroidered “Wrong Side of History My Arse” banner.

 

Some of the banners outside court in support of Venice & Linda

When I did my two terms of A level law,  fifty million years ago, we attended a case where the public gallery was an actual gallery, empty and echoing, encircling the proceedings below, with polished handrails of mahogany, wooden benches and seating for several scores of people. But of course, Westminster Magistrates Court is not a Victorian building housing a Crown Court. Once the clerk opened the door and those of us who made it inside entered the ‘public gallery’ I could see why observers were limited to twelve.

Two rows of about ten seats each, lined up cinema-style, were set behind a partially-enclosed glass screen, on the same level as the proceedings. On the other side of the screen, twelve people sat at their desks, piles of partially-confined papers and computers in front of them.  It reminded me of a 90s television studio.  Julie Bindel and Joani Walsh, who had press passes, were seated on the other side of the glass. Venice and Linda were sitting on the right. They looked calm and confident. Venice was smiling. I nearly waved. Several people were talking.

I heard a woman shrug and say to Giuliana, “Are you seeking to…” and “there’s an awful lot of material,”  but it was too noisy to make out much else. A policeman popped his head around the door and reminded us that we weren’t allowed to record the proceedings.

“And no jeering,”  he told us, good naturedly, “or I’ll have to ask you all to leave.”

We assured him we planned no jeering.

The chatter died down; District Judge Richard Blake entered the court room, a slate-haired, pleasant-faced, fatherly-looking chappie, and we all rose. And then we sat. And then started a somewhat bizarre session.

Guiliana rose early in the proceedings, to tell the judge that he was a solicitor himself but had brought along a friend to help for medical reasons.

“Well,” said Judge Blake, “he can’t address me,” but added that he was content for the friend to stay.

Kendal spoke slowly and addressed Judge Blake  with great pomp, asking him

J, after the hearing, in the offending T shirt

 “to exclude the person at the back in the public gallery who is wearing a T shirt saying ‘Adult Human Female …

…and also, the defendant, Linda Bellos is wearing a suffragette colours square. The T-shirt is a highly political emblem, it is the slogan of the organisation called Standing For Women… brazen in contempt of court…”

“You object to a T shirt?” enquired the judge, with perhaps a very slight raising of one eyebrow.

Indeed, Guiliana did, calling the T shirt ‘deeply offensive’ and the suffragette square was mentioned once more, with a suggestion that the presence of either or both items breached the Equality Act and denied Kendal ‘as a transwoman’ the protected characteristic of sex.

“Who is the person in the gallery?” asked the judge, with weary patience, and J obligingly rose so he could see her T shirt. After a moment’s perusal, the judge referenced the Sufragette movement, calling it ‘an historical cause’.

“I’m not prepared to make any rulings on these items,” he declared. “People are free to wear what they want… I’m not satisfied that amounts to an offence.”

Judge Blake urged everybody present to be ‘cautious’, observing that, “this case clearly reflects issues in the community,’ and telling Kendal, “I understand the sincerity of your application.”

My notes from the hearing. It was complex at times. Top right reads ‘I got lost!’

There followed mention of various things that half made sense when I was writing them down, but don’t make so much sense reading back my notes. Obviously accuracy is important and most legal terminology eludes me.

To tell the truth, I was tired, it was sometimes hard to hear what was being said, and it was just a little bit boring. I stared at the back of Kendal’s head and wondered what would induce someone to mount a prosecution for something like this.

 

There are those, of course, who think the whole thing was a wonderful idea.

Oh, the hyperbole! Harrop looms, like a 21st century Dr T. J. Eckleburg, over the valley of ashes where the dark and malevolent forces of gender-critical feminism swirl and swarm! Guiliana later spoke of the ‘floodgates of hate being opened’ on 8th November, the day of the York meeting. What is with this excessive drama? Is this all we are left with when we deny biological facts?

There was some discussion over the mis-spelling of Venice’s name- Rose before Venice, Allan not Allen- and some deliberation over what did or didn’t constitute an amendment.

Guiliana had, so I understood, dismissed his legal team and was representing himself. He was, in the words of the judge, “seeking to lay a further summons under the Communications Act”. I got the impression that this wasn’t allowed because the summons wasn’t related to ‘the York event’, or possibly because it hadn’t been filed in time.  It was a little baffling. At one point Kendal told the judge, “to be honest, Sir, I’m not quite sure what happened” and at another wanted to “check we are talking about the same thing” although if I’m honest, I’m not quite sure exactly what was being referred to on either occasion. There was talk of dates, things expiring, and much subjective speculation, interspersed with frequent slights upon the character of Ms Allan.

“There is a long history of abuse, of transwomen in particular, by Ms Allan, against the community as a whole, against targeted individuals and against me in particular.”  proclaimed Kendal, referencing Allan’s responsibility for broadcasting at the York event.

“You didn’t persue section 127,” interrupted the judge, in an attempt to stay on track. This was discussed for a while. An incident was said to be out of time and another- the same one? I’m unsure- had been dropped.

“”There is a continuous history of abuse…   It was never the prosecutor’s idea to drop the abuse, the abuse is a fundamental aspect of the prosecution” said Guliana.

“But that’s what you did,” asserted the judge.

Kendal accused his previous legal team of “a conspicuous failure to follow my instructions” and at one point seemed to attempt to correct Judge Blake, telling him “my understanding of the law, Sir, is that it’s perfectly legitimate to add offences.”

The judge, with infinite composure and patience, pointed out that this further allegation didn’t arise from the York event.

Kendal then spoke of the events at Hyde Park Corner and the University Women’s Club, citing that they were arranged by Ms Allan and included ‘obscene speeches by associates of Miss Bellos’ asserting again that, ‘Miss Allan has abused transwomen.’ and claiming ‘all these matters are inextricably linked’.

He then asked to play the court a video, a request which Judge Blake refused.

Venice Allan

“Ms Allan seeks to paint herself as a middle-aged mother of two…” began Giuliana, but we will never know what hyperbolic depiction was about to ensue- perhaps Venice as some modern-day Medusa with a head full of transphobic snakes?- because the judge cut him off, reminding him again that, “the York event is the legal issue.

I could see Venice smiling politely at the side of the court. I wondered how she remained so patient in the face of all this insulting rhetoric. Giuliana was now telling the judge that the prosecution had, “conclusive evidence that Ms Allan is responsible for a whole series of what can only be described as anti-trans hate meetings.”

“Excuse me, they can’t only be described as ‘anti-trans,.” Amanda Jones, Allan’s barrister, finally objected, concluding her complaint with, “This continued abuse in inappropriate.”

The gist seemed to be that Guiliana wanted to add more offences to the charges against Venice and that the court held that this wasn’t possible as it was only concerned with what happened in York, when Linda spoke her now-infamous lines. Let us remind ourselves of what was said at that meeting in York.

A few sections of Bellos’s talk are below, you can hear the full speech (she speaks from 48.40 – 55.45) here, on YouTube.

“My focus tends to be the political use of power and I have- perhaps its naive, but I have a desire to see the notion of equality in the world. I say that as a black women; I say that as a woman and having grown up with a very conscious awareness that being female put me in a lesser position than that of my brother, a male. And it’s still played out sixty-something years later.

I got a note today from a transwoman who I know, I can’t remember what she said to me but something – I said she because I’m always respectful- that she was very hurt by what I said, and I asked her a question about race. Because it seems to me that one of the cateogories that human beings- actually men-  came up with is the notion of races. The categorisation of races seems to have been created around the time of gender being created.

I must say, having borne two children I think I’m physiologically, and in many other senses, a female and a woman. But I play football and I box, and if any one of those bastards comes near me I will take off my glasses and… clock (?) them.  I take my glasses off and I can’t see a bloody thing! (laughs) That’s not the point. I’m quite prepared to threaten violence because it seems to me that politically, what they’re seeking to do is piss on all women…

What really offends me is the extent to which academia and political parties have listened to them in a way that they’re not listening to us as women….

I think the solution is to revisit the Women’s Liberation Movement. I really do see that we have spent too long- I don’t know what we’ve been doing but not very much in the name of feminsm- and I think it’s timely to bring back, the answer is to bring back feminism. To bring back a politics in which we seek… try to build, an 8th demand of the WLM… it would be useful if we took another step which is called consciousness raising. It was and remains a vital method.”

But back to the court room. Where were we? Ah yes, Amanda Jones had just complained that the continued abuse of her clients, Allan and Bellos, was inappropriate.

There was talk of summonses and photographs, statements and issues, and the phrases “these are not matters arising out of the York events” and “well out of a six month period” drifted to my ears and I scribbled them down, but mostly I wished that I had a nice, strong, hot coffee in my hand.

 “The defendant strongly objects to the additional offence which the prosecution was quite rightly advised had no realistic prospect of success.” stated Jones.

Dates were tossed around, and times and running out of time, and places and applications. Kendal said information was made available in time. The judge said it wasn’t.

“It doesn’t take a mathematical genius to work out that this is out of time.” quipped Jones.

“I’m not persuaded it does arrive from the circumstances of York event and I refuse the application.” concluded Judge Blake.

I perked up. That sounded positive! Was it almost time for coffee?

“Where do we go from here?” asked Judge Blake.

‘Starbucks?’ I thought, hopefully.

Jones said they would be contacting the CPS and asking them to take over or discontinue the proceedings.  She talked of ‘frank disclosure about this issue’ and mentioned the idea that there was no prospect of conviction of either defendant.

“We were served yesterday and this morning with a great deal of information and are not in a position to enter pleas.”

Jones went on to note that one of the difficulties with a private prosecution is ‘there is emotional involvement on behalf of the prosecutor’ which is not an issue in a standard proceeding.  She added that she was concerned about the language being used and the importance that it should establish facts, using as an example Giuliana’s comment that ‘the defendants have opened the floodgates of hate’ and calling it ‘both hyperbolic and prejudicial’ and calling for ‘appropriate language’ to be used’.

Judge Blake said both that it was the right of the defendant in a private prosecution to invite the CPS to look at the case, and that a date needed to be fixed for the defence to make submissions.

“Shall I retire for a little while?” he asked, concluding, “It’s quite apparent that here are two factions with very different views of the world,” and pointing out that if conflict could be avoided it would be a happy day for everyone.

We came out of the courtroom onto the landing and milled around for a while. People  wanted to know what had happened, which was basically that the case was adjourned. A journalist asked J and I a few questions before I slipped down the stairs and outside.

What a sight greeted me! Well over a hundred women, and a few men, circled the front courtyard, laughing, chanting and talking; waving their hands in the air and banners by their sides. I hadn’t expected to see so many people, and it was definitely the sudden exposure to the bright midday sunlight that brought a tear to my eye. I wanted to hug every one of them.

After we’d been waiting for about ten minutes, a  chant of “self defence, no offence” broke out before turning to cheers and clapping as Linda and Venice joined us. Huge smiles broke out on their faces as they hugged those who had come out to support them. One group of women broke into a chorus of “there’s only one Venice Allan” and others took photos of and with the defendants. Linda made a rousing speech, but I missed what she said. Luckily, it was recorded and you can see the video on YouTube here.

 

A large group of us went to the nearby park and lay in the sun under some trees, beside the water. Somebody opened a bottle of champagne and poured Venice a glass.

 

 

What will happen next? Your guess is as good as mine. “Only time will tell,” as my old gran used to say, sagely, when she hadn’t got the foggiest idea what was going on.

One thing’s for sure, it’s unlikely to be dull. Cheers!

 

POST SCRIPT – PRESS STATEMENT

Westminster Magistrates Court, Wednesday 26/9/18

Linda Bellos and Venice Allan made a statement to the press:

“The judge refused an application to remove a Suffragette pocket square from one of the defendants and a woman in the public gallery wearing a T-shirt that said Woman equals Adult Human Female.

“The case has been adjourned for the CPS to consider whether to take over the case and discontinue it. And the issue of whether the summons should have been issued is re-opened.

“The prosecution’s application to add additional charges to Ms Allan was refused. The judge accepted Miss Jones’ submissions that the new matters were out of time and did not arise substantially from the same facts.

“And we have reserved the option of a judicial review.“

 

 

POSTSCRIPT 3/12/18 You can read what happened next in my follow-up post,here.

 

 

Posted in Activism, Event Reviews | 11 Comments

‘Gender Neutral’ Toilets? Computer says no.

Who actually WANTS ‘gender neutral’ toilets?

In the first few months after Twitter added the ‘poll’ option for its users back in 2015, over 1.7 billion votes were cast.  The online poll is a data gathering research tool previous generations could never have dreamed of. A poll held in August this year asking ‘Which is better, cats or dogs?’ got over 6,500 votes and came to the rather surprising conclusion that nearly three quarters of participants preferred dogs to cats.

I was so surprised by this that I checked elsewhere. Research by Sainsbury’s came up with exactly the same answer – 74%. Madness. I suspect that more research is needed. But enough of our four-legged friends. I am easily distracted from the issue in hand.

In researching my last article Unisex Toilets and Sexual Violence in Schools,  I came across several cases where parents had been horrified when their kids were suddenly expected to use gender neutral loos in school. Some had even taken their child out of school in protest. It seemed that while there were some people- mostly men- who didn’t mind the idea of gender neutral toilets, there didn’t seem to be too many people who actually, actively wanted them.

One such is transactivist and advocate for abolition of the Obscene Publications Act, Jane Fae, who enthused in Gay Star News last year, “Typically any introduction of a gender-neutral bathroom would be met with applause.” 

Why on earth would anyone want to applaud a gender-neutral toilet? You might want to rethink that, M. Fae.  In my younger days, I nipped into the Ladies’ loos in a club or bar on numerous occasions if a guy was bothering me or seemed creepy.   If he could have followed me in, I certainly wouldn’t have been applauding. I know I’m not alone in feeling this.  There have been quite a few online polls done on the subject of how people feel about unisex toilets and the general consensus is ‘computer says no’.

Paris Lees and other high profile trans-activists have also spoken about the joy of the gender neutral loo, claiming that women’s safety is in no way compromised by the presence of be-penised persons.

“Whatever the law is, people of all genders can still be dicks to you in public places,” says Shon Faye. Of course, a logical conclusion from that argument would be, ‘do away with all laws because people will commit crimes anyway.’

Faye goes on to add that the idea that he should use the men’s toilets “seems both ludicrous and terrifying”, ignoring the obvious reason that this is because there are men in there.

If (there is) proof that gender-neutral toilets put women at risk, I’m all ears. If not, I’m rather bored by people… whipping up unnecessary panic.” said Lees in 2017, claiming that fears about gender-neutral toilets were ‘all in the mind’.

Well, Paris, a recent Freedom of Information request by the Sunday Times showed that a huge 90% of sexual assaults in changing rooms took place in ‘gender neutral’ areas. Listening now? No. I didn’t think so.

 

Of 134 complaints in 2017-2018, 120 reported incidents happened in unisex changing rooms.  Not necessarily toilets per se, but areas where women are in a state of undress and that are traditionally single-sex.

Ninety percent! Women are clearly more vulnerable when men are present.

 

 

 

So from 3rd-5th September 2018 I ran a three-day Twitter poll of my own, which captured a modest 2,770 votes. And here’s the result:

 

 

 

84% of respondents said no.

11% weren’t bothered.

Just 5%  preferred the idea.

 

 

 

 

Of course, one of the problems facing the Twitter poll is sampling frame. While in theory you have all of Twitter, it’s naturally your own- usually like-minded- followers who are most likely to see, and vote in, your poll.

I tried to partly redress this balance by asking people to retweet; wording the poll to appeal specifically to those who might actively want gender neutral bathrooms, and only asking those who favoured them to give their reasons for the preference. My poll was shared 255 times and  although I have no way of tracking who shared it with whom, I do know it also reached the trans community: for example Michelle, ‘a loveable trans woman who loves God,’-  who later that week DMd me to call me a ‘pathetic vile bigot’-  shared the poll with his followers, although with limited success.

So my poll is what it is. It’s a Twitter poll. I don’t offer it up as a highly researched, peer reviewed study, although there are people determined to find reasons to scoff at even those.  Thanks to the wonders of the internet, however, we can look at other polls with similar wording and compare results. This should give a much bigger sample, although of course it will still not be indicative of the entire population.

My father remains unimpressed, musing, “An online poll just tells you what people who like answering online polls think.” Thanks, dad.

In a recent debate prompted by a row over new ‘gender neutral’ toilets at the Barbican Centre in London, the show Loose Women discussed unisex toilets.

“A unisex toilet! The stench, the filth and all the men,” started Christine Blakely, calling the women’s toilets, “a little sanctuary for a few moments.”

“We go in there to get away from men. It’s a safe place,” said Nadia Sawalha, adding, “I don’t want to send my daughter off to the loo in a restaurant not knowing whether there’s any strange men in there or not.”

The opinions of actual women mean very little to Penis Pink News, who ran a feature criticising the show,  declaring triumphantly, ‘What about your toilets at home?’ and citing unisex toilets in small facilities like aeroplanes and cafes as already gender neutral. The absurdity of this argument, of course,  is that we know who uses our toilets at home, and the tiny, wash basin-inclusive individual toilet of your local bijou cafe is a far cry from a communal public toilet block.

The article in Penis Pink News concluded with a feat of spectacular mansplaining from Benjamin Butterworth, who claimed: ‘Loose Women really doesn’t understand.”

 

After the show, Loose Women ran a poll asking viewers if they would be happy to use unisex toilets. 65% replied that ‘no way!’ would they use them.

Checking with other polls and surveys, it seems that Loose Women understands the situation very well.  I’m not alone with finding unenthusiastic results. When Channel 4 unveiled its new gender neutral (GN) toilets ‘4everyone’, women were not impressed, leading the Express newspaper to run its own readers’ poll in which a whopping 92% of people replied that men and women should not be expected to share toilets. When Irish broadcaster Claire Byrne ran a similar poll, only 31% of respondents voted in favour of GN toilets.

A 2013 YouGov poll suggested that only 38% of women would feel comfortable using a unisex toilet in a public place.

When it was reported that women at the Home Office were refusing to use the new £40,000 unisex loos, This Morning ran a poll asking, ‘Are you bothered by unisex toilets?’ and 66% of 21,000 people answered ‘yes’.

Presenter Danni Levy said “We cannot get past the fact that men have a penis and they use the toilet in a different way.”

Penis Pink News responded again, dismissing the presenters as ‘cisgender’ and quoting a random on Twitter who told the This Morning team “perhaps you all get over yourselves and grow up.” Wowzer. I bet that told them.

Outside the realms of transactivism, the lack of enthusiasm for the unisex toilet is apparent.

I think the answers are consistent enough to be very clear – we don’t want mixed sex toilets.” said  Dr Jo Meyertons, going on to add, “Only trans-id males want them, and they don’t give a damn about women or girls.”

With the exception of the YouGov poll, one thing all these polls have in common is that they ask both men and women their opinions. While many men seem embarrassed or awkward in unisex facilities (I see the poor things cringe in Pret-a-Manger as they hurriedly ‘remember’ to wash their hands when they see women are present) it is women that have more to lose. Men are far more likely to be unconcerned by sharing facilities. One woman responding to my poll commented:

“The survey isn’t restricted to women and it should be. Because women are at risk of sexual assault in bathrooms, not men, which is the main reason we don’t want gender neutral bathrooms.”

A male respondent answered the question, ‘Who actually wants gender neutral toilets?’ with:

“If I was a woman, the answer would be ‘definitely not’. Because I have daughters and a wife the answer is ‘definitely not’. If I had nobody else to worry about, my answer would be ‘not bothered’. That’s because men don’t generally have to worry about being attacked by women.”

One thing I noticed coming up frequently among those who supported the idea of GN toilets was the hope or presumption that unisex bathrooms would include private wash basins, be pristine, spacious, well-designed and luxurious. Well, I think we’d all like pristine public toilets. This, of course, will not always be the case.

Two ideas were put forward that struck me as important. The first was that unisex toilets would make bathroom visits easier for dads out with young female children.

Interestingly that very situation arose this afternoon when I was visiting a friend whose husband was getting ready to take their eight-year-old daughter to a concert.

“What will you do if she needs the loo?” asked mum, somewhat uneasily.

“Oh, I’ll wait for her outside the Ladies,” replied dad, immediately.

While on one level this could be said to show that GN facilities are needed, on another it draws attention to how society subliminally acknowledges the predatory nature of men. It’s perfectly normal for a woman to take her eight year old son into the Ladies, but neither the child’s mum nor her dad would have been happy for their daughter to use the men’s toilet, even with her dad as protector. Dad was also aware that, even with a small child, his presence in the ladies would not be welcomed. The reason for that is core to this whole debate.

Some shopping malls and larger restaurants already provide ‘family rooms’ with space for a buggy and changing facilities, although these are often a shared space with disabled people. More of these spaces should be provided in addition to disabled toilets. By their very nature these spaces are unisex.

Likewise more public bathrooms should be available for those with larger children or adults that have special bathroom needs and their carers: the Changing Places campaign has campaigned for this with growing success. Again, by their very nature these spaces are unisex.

The above are special bathrooms, not the traditionally single-sex communal cubicle or stall toilets with a shared hand washing area that are provided by most venues. These are not the spaces that are under threat by the current trend for unisex toilets.

The other argument for unisex bathrooms is that they could result in shorter waiting times for women in crowded areas such as clubs and theatres.  Of course, while this may be true on some level, women are no longer left with a space to escape from men- whether to avoid being pestered, discuss their date with friends, fix their lippy or clean up in private after a messy period. Some might say more to the point, what about urinals? Because surely even the most easy going of us doesn’t want to walk past a row of urinating blokes with their knobs out? If we get rid of the urinals it’ll take longer for blokes to go to the loo… yada yada… no time saved at all.

Nonetheless, 5% of my respondents said they liked the idea of gender neutral toilets, and a further 11% said they weren’t bothered, so let’s have a look at some of their reasons why.

 

Reasons for wanting, or not minding, unisex public toilets

Luxury hire toilet cubicle from ‘Prestige’

If they are floor to ceiling walls/locking doors, self-contained units with sink & hand-drier, then fine…. plus noise resistant…

I personally want gender neutral ones, after having used unisex toilets, which were individual rooms like disabled toilets, in a row. A lot more private and you didn’t have to basically sit in the toilet to close the door. Also makes sense in terms of handling numbers.

Gender neutral are great when it’s a separate room with toilet and sink. Nice if you need some private time in front of the mirror/sink (e.g. to refresh armpits).

Gender neutral accessible cubicles, one user per cubicle. Everyone can use them and it evens out the queues.

I’ve just come back from Sweden and they seemed to manage fine with public unisex toilets for everyone… no mess. No drama. No stink. Individual cubicles for all though.

If its all cubicles I don’t see the harm – how many times do women use men’s toilets in pubs etc,when the ladies is full?

I like gender neutral toilets although not with urinals. The ones I’ve used have an air of civility about them which is lacking in single sex toilets. People seem to be on their best behaviour when in the company of the opposite sex.

Because I appear somewhat in the middle, and I don’t want to make anyone feel uncomfortable.

If toilets are single cubicles and secure, I’d prefer gender neutral to even up the average time spent queuing. If they’re stalls, single-sex.

All toilets should be single occupant, designed for easy access, and for both sexes.

The pub I was in suddenly had mixed loos when the gent’s malfunctioned and had to be closed. Men & women in the Ladies’… I was more apologetic than the women seemed worried. Separate cubicles, locked doors. It seemed to work.

I like them insofar it means twice the amount of toilets for me which reduces walking and waiting time. That effect only applies to old buildings though, for the future it will probably lead to less toilets and women being marginalized again (by pee on the seats etc.)

Gender neutral. No more worrying about going into the wrong bathroom accidentally, no more wasting money on two bathrooms, no more looking for the bathroom only to find there’s only a woman’s bathroom on that floor. Its just more convenient.

Personally, if I have to go, Any port in the storm will do, I’ve used public Gender Neutral Loos, they are private, and guarded. Hell, I even have one in my home. That said, I am there to focus on the task at hand.

Totally not bothered. We’ve all been using gender neutral toilets in our homes, on planes, in small restaurants and cafes, and we’ve been fine.

I’ve seen some good examples & can see the benefits for opposite sex carers including fathers of young daughters. But they must be designed as such, not cobbled together, & must guarantee privacy.

Unisex if kept clean (urinals behind privacy wall) to reduce queuing time & allow opposite sex carer/parent to accompany. Not in places where females are more vulnerable (nightclubs? schools?) unless layout rethought.

 

Reasons for wanting three types of toilet, female, male, gender neutral.

I’d prefer all three to be options or it to be by the public business’ choice themselves. Gov buildings should have all three though.

Definitely single sex with a third gender neutral option for those that want it.

I’d prefer to have Male only, Female only & ‘Anyone’ options. Covers all bases…

Single sex with a third option available for those who need it.

I would like three options: male, female, anyone welcome/family friendly.

There should be three rooms: male, female, whatever.

I answered single sex but I DO think single-stall gender neutral toilets are an acceptable addition to (not replacement for) single sex bathrooms.

*****

Although I only requested that people give me reasons FOR wanting gender neutral loos, it’s not surprising that many of those against the idea also shared their thoughts.

 

Reasons for not wanting unisex public toilets

“I could foresee many instances where I’d miss there being (only) other women in that space. Tampons, escaping men in bars among the safety of other women, etc.

I like having a girls only space.

We had gender neutral toilets in a school where I was teaching recently… some parents of girls objected so strongly they threatened to take them out of the school.

 

Men’s toilets stink! Yuk I would not feel comfortable using a stall next to a man having a pee or anything else!!

I’m a bloke and I pee on the seat.. I can’t see many women liking that!!

Because men get more urine on the floor than women.

Even a 10 year old girl should not have to share a toilet with strange men with the perverts out there . What about sperm on the seat ?

Men’s loos are messy and stinky, leaving aside the obvious safeguarding issues.

I don’t even like male cleaners coming in. Vital that we retain sex segregated spaces in public.

This is probably hopelessly old-fashioned, but I’m not comfortable even having men’s and women’s toilets ADJACENT to each other. Where I live, a little girl was strangled and raped in a disabled/unisex toilet in a shopping centre while her family waited for her outside.

I for one have no desire to poop with a man in the next stall over.

Mixed sex are usually gross. Pee all over floor n seat. General feelings of discomfort and unsafe with unfamiliar male persons in that space with me. I don’t feel like I have to worry about peeping Toms either.

Used gender neutral loos last week at NT property- wee on seats and floors- horrid.

Quite apart from the safety aspect, I do not want to have to deal with loos where men have pissed on the floor and the seats. I know some women can be less than hygienic in their habits, but these are rare IME.*     

* in my experience

Any space with men in it becomes “Men’s Space” so there’s no neutrality about it. Men dominate any spaces they are allowed into.

Definitely prefer single sex loos.

I think all toilets should be single sex and gender neutral – so you use the toilet for your sex regardless of what gender you identify as.

Recently an old gentleman walked into a unisex loo as I was washing my hands. The dear didn’t know where to look even though I was only washing my hands.

Single sex offers privacy, for women and men. No one wants to deal with menstruation issues next to a male, and few men are comfortable urinating in front of women. Also, men’s loos stink – urine splashed everywhere!

Last thing I want are gender neutral loos.

I had to use a ‘gender neutral’ loo once. There was nothing neutral about it. Especially not the odour. Males quite clearly dominated, and it was absolutely disgusting to use. I had to pee with my bag on my lap because there was no hook, and no way I could put it on the floor.

I’ve had two miscarriages at work. There’s a lot of blood.

The last comment, so sad, sent me in search of an article I had read about the number of women who suffer miscarriages in public. I eventually found it on the Fair Play for Women site and you can read it here.  Be warned, it is deeply moving, it made me cry.  It also made me angry that so many men would be so flippant about women’s need for single-sex spaces. The writer concludes:

“If the world outside the Ladies’ was fully accepting of women’s right to privacy & dignity, of our desire not to be stalked and groped, of our naturally unpolished looks and our hormonally-active bodies, then we wouldn’t need those safer spaces.  As it stands, though, the world demands that we hide our ‘mess’ and has given us a small room in public places, where we’re supposed to sort ourselves out.”

 

One other reply that made a huge impression on me was this:

The use of SpyCams. Also known as Molka. Recently I was contacted by a woman via Twitter. She lives in Korea, where women are frequently filmed without their knowledge and the results posted on the internet, sometimes by boyfriends but often by strangers. The results can ruin women’s lives.

“I am now spreading the facts about Korea’s misogyny, especially about Molka, which means a spycam in Korea,” she wrote. “Could you please spread this so that this gets more attention please? I would be so thankful. Since this is a problem of Korea, not many people gives interest to this issue, but still I would like everyone to know this. Thank you so much.” She linked me to this thread on Twitter.

In Korea, men ‘hide cameras in their clothes or stuff’ so that they can secretly take pictures or videos of women without being noticed. The videos are uploaded to porn sites and victims have little luck getting them taken down.

Journalist Raphael Rashid tweeted in June that some South Korean women are now wearing masks to hide their faces when using public toilets, so they can’t be identified.

In Seoul, the situation has reached the point where public toilets are checked daily for these cameras. In 2017 over 6,000 cases of ‘molka’ were reported- this number, of course, does not include the women too scared to report the crime, or the probably even larger numbers who never even realise they’ve been filmed.  The checks seems to be vaguely ineffective, despite the huge numbers of women being filmed or photographed in states of undress without their consent, the authorities have not yet reported finding a hidden camera. One reason for this may be that in unisex toilets, a discretely held or placed phone may do the job.  Cameras can be hidden in baseball caps; in shoes. In August of this year, an estimated 70,000 people, mostly women, took to the streets in protest, some wearing masks, to protest being filmed by hidden cameras, some on mobile phones, some cached by men in public toilets. Many held high banners declaring, ‘My Life is Not Your Porn’. Laws against ‘Molka’ are proving inadequate. An article in the Independent earlier this year ended with the ominous prediction. ” Activists have warned the practice is reaching epidemic levels and could spread to other countries.”

If men can wander in and out of public toilets used by women, holding phones; planting cameras, taking photos and sexual assaults will all be much easier. And before you scoff at the potential for that, remember the statistics we’ve looked at already. 90% of sexual assaults in changing rooms in this country took place in ‘gender neutral’ areas.

Think it doesn’t happen here?  Here are just some of the SpyCam items available on UK Amazon and Ebay. A baseball hat with a camera in the front will cost you £55. A fake water bottle is a snip at a mere £32. You can buy a plastic coat hook with a hidden camera in it for less than £15. One UK seller among many has sold 53, has more than 10 more available and boasts 100% customer satisfaction. At the time of writing, 43 people are ‘watching’ the item on Ebay.

So, where does all this leave us? Potential forthcoming changes to the Gender Recognition Act would make it even easier for men to access women’s spaces. Any man- ANY man- will be able to simply self-identify as a woman and have as much legal right to be in a woman’s bathroom as in the men’s.

Some might claim that if public bathrooms are changed to unisex, at least we aren’t pretending women have the right to female-bodied spaces any more. To be honest, that’s the only upside I can see.

*****

Postscript: changes to the Gender Recognition Act

Concerned about potential forthcoming changes to the Gender Recognition Act? You should be! The new system would leave itself horrendously open to abuse.  Laws that were slipped through years ago without public consultation mean that already a birth certificate is the only document that can’t be changed on a whim. Our right to women-only spaces is slipping through our fingers. To campaign for women’s rights is now widely viewed as transphobic. This has to stop.

We have just one chance to have our say in the government consultation which ends next month on 19th October 2018.  If you haven’t already, I urge you to take part.

Fair Play for Women have some excellent information on their website here, and their free online booklet can talk you through the questions in the GRA consultation, explaining just what the government are asking and what the potential changes may mean. You can also get involved in spreading the word yourself. Act now, while you can. This really could be our last chance to protect female-bodied spaces.

 

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